There is a five year clock most people have never heard of, and it is not the one they think it is.
Ask someone about the Roth five year rule and they will tell you about the one that governs whether earnings come out tax free. Fair enough. That one is real.
But there is a second clock, running separately, attached to every conversion you ever do. It has nothing to do with income tax. It exists solely to stop people from using conversions as a way around the early withdrawal penalty.
And it starts fresh with each conversion.
Get it right and you can build a legal, penalty free income stream years before 59 and a half. Get it wrong and you pay 10 percent on money you already paid income tax on once.